Laura and Kara have finally decided it's time to take a hard look at the MEGA hit - Avatar the Last Airbender, along with special guest and huge Avatar fan, Eric O'Keeffe. Eric is a producer, podcaster and voice actor from the popular children's podcast, What If World! While you may think this is an obvious "yes", our team takes a look at the good, the bad, and the surprising from this martial-arts, anime inspired 2005 classic.
Laura and Kara have finally decided it's time to take a hard look at the MEGA hit - Avatar the Last Airbender, along with special guest and huge Avatar fan, Eric O'Keeffe. Eric is a producer, podcaster and voice actor from the popular children's podcast, What If World! While you may think this is an obvious "yes", our team takes a look at the good, the bad, and the surprising from this martial-arts, anime inspired 2005 classic.
The views and opinions expressed by the should they watch it podcast are those of two moms who happen to be a registered play therapist and a voice actor for cartoons. So while they may feel their opinions come from a knowledgeable place, they are still in fact, just opinions. Should they watch it? A podcast that takes the task of reviewing your kid's favorite shows up your to do list? Hey there and welcome to the shift a watch a podcast. I'm Cara Edward. And
Laura Orr:I'm Laura Orr. I'm
Kara Edwards:so excited today. I love the shows when we have a very special guest and boy, am I excited about today's guest.
Laura Orr:Let me to let's just dive right in. Eric O'Keefe is a teacher, voice actor, father of two producer and host of the popular podcast. What if world stories for kids? Welcome, Eric.
Kara Edwards:Hey,
Unknown:thank you. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Laura Orr:Thank you so much for being here. We're so excited to have you. Our kids absolutely love your podcasts.
Unknown:That's that's really honestly so awesome to hear. You probably know, you know, you make a pet podcast in a room. And you just have no idea what people think of it. Well,
Kara Edwards:yeah, you don't get any feedback. You don't get any like listener interaction. Like this is not a radio station. It's broadcast, but it's literally broadcast to the empty universe until someone says Good
Laura Orr:job. Yeah,
Unknown:yes. Thank you. That really means a lot, which I have to
Kara Edwards:tell you. So your podcast is absolutely after my own heart, because I started my voice acting career at Radio, Disney. Back in like 1996, I believe was one of the first on air personalities. And back then this was in the original when it was in Dallas, Texas at ABC radio networks. And we had a feature known as magic kids theater. And it was my first exposure to theater of the mind radio drama. Yeah. And it was. It's, it's it's Eric's podcast. Basically, it's where you take a story. And there's all these different characters and you create a story. But instead of watching television, this is the way that television existed back before there was television, if there used to be these radio dramas where people would follow along. I mean, they would tune in each week, just like a soap opera to find out what happens next. And these characters would be developed voice acting
Laura Orr:Christmas story. Yes, be sure to drink your Ovaltine.
Kara Edwards:And I would get so excited about magic kids theater because I was like bringing that back. But then of course, radio Disney's been gone for quite a while now. Magic kids theater went away when they moved to LA. So I did not realize until I stumbled upon your podcast that the theater of the mind still existed for children. And I think it is such an important and wonderful thing to spawn their imagination.
Unknown:Oh, thank you. I mean, that is pretty much why I started I was a preschool teacher and I just wanted something to play for the kids during naptime which is quiet time, half of them were napping at that point, and they just wanted to be engaged. And I was looking for things to play for kids and outside of audiobooks, which were pretty stale and honestly hard for a preschool aged kids to follow that there. There wasn't much and so with the help of my wife, Karen, I, she helped me start up the show and and now it's probably aimed at an at an older age, it's sort of evolved along with my listenership. But at first it was, it was really just aimed at those at those preschool kids to try to just give something to stimulate their imagination.
Kara Edwards:And all of the voices are so much fun. How long have you been voice acting?
Unknown:Ah, well, I mean, officially, just when I started the podcast, I was training as an actor for you know, through college, and I was just but I was mostly doing theater and just like getting random commercial gigs and stuff. I did like one indie film that was terrible. I
Kara Edwards:feel like we all need that movie that we're really embarrassed shows up on our IMDb
Laura Orr:totally, totally.
Unknown:Don't Google be too hard? It's fine. But yeah, but this was really something that I was always interested in. And always sort of played in practice with with my own students and doing after school improv classes and theater classes. I just had this like range of characters. I did sketch comedy back in Boston. And some of those characters were adapted to be, you know, kid friendly versions of themselves and it just sort of evolved from there.
Kara Edwards:Okay, so this is the first thing that I always tell people I get asked, literally, almost weekly, daily. Okay, how do you become a voice actor? And I always, I mean, no question. You gotta go to improv classes. The more you can learn about comedy, and Acting off the cuff, how to get outside of the box how to get outside of your own head to think and be creative in improv is always the first thing I'm like, get the to an improv class, then get yourself to as many acting classes as you can take from there, get a vocal coach and someone who can teach you voice acting, because it's a different skill than in person acting. But you know that that's absolutely where it all starts. So as you're like improv and all this stuff, I'm like, Yes, you know what you're doing?
Unknown:Thank you, you're giving me too much credit. But I really do appreciate that.
Laura Orr:I also love the concept of your podcast where you invite children to call or write in ask silly questions. Like, what if cats ran the world, I think was one of them that that really stood out for me. And then you create these fun stories based on the question. So I love that you added that piece to it so that kids can take ownership and participate in the process.
Kara Edwards:Yeah, Michael woke up this morning, my son woke up this morning. And it was like, Yeah, Eric from the podcasts where it's like raining elephants and stuff was like, we're gonna be talking to him today. And he started like, listing off his questions. Okay, well, here's my ideas for today. Like, it really does spawn them to start thinking
Unknown:that this is honestly the most rewarding part of it is getting these questions. And then, you know, I get so many. And sometimes there will be a family who will send me literally 50 questions, and I'm like, you have so many questions. These are awesome. So you know, you can tell your own stories, too. You don't have to wait for me. And every once in a while, like once in a blue moon, a kid will send me just a fully written story or like a little comic or something. And these are just just really, really fill me up when I when I hear that kids are inspired by the show.
Kara Edwards:All that love this. And again, I just please keep doing this. Just a reminder of the mind is so good. It's so good. Thank you. And I'm excited too. Cuz Eric, I have to tell you, I, Laura has wanted to talk about the show that you've chosen to review. So many times. I have stopped her every single time where I'm like, nope, too big, too much too hard. And I push it back, push it back. And so she was like, okay, Eric's coming on our show. And he wants to review Avatar The Last Airbender, I was like,
Laura Orr:okay, now's the time. Here we go
Kara Edwards:down. And I'm so glad you did. Because my son and I are having so much fun. Like, what a great show. And I'm glad that I'm getting to share this experience with him and that we get to talk about it.
Unknown:Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, it's one of my all time favorites. So I'm really really happy that we get to talk about it today to tell us
Laura Orr:about why what made you choose Avatar the lesson Airbender for us to review today.
Unknown:Well, I honestly, like most big important decisions in my life. I was like, I'm going on this really cool show. And I asked my partner Karen and she just quickly is being smarter than me. She quickly scrolled through your backlog and it was like I don't think they've done avatar. And we're just like, oh, automatic Yes, let's let's ask them because that's that's one of the things she and I first bonded over when when we dated in New York many years ago. Was avatar yep, I was referred to by her friends as Avatar boy in fact, oh my
Kara Edwards:gosh.
Laura Orr:Avatar boy I love that
Unknown:yeah, I was a big I am a big nerd for you know most things and this show combined you know my my love of martial arts it's it's got comedy and heart and doesn't really like punch down it'll it deals with trauma. I mean, there's I know we're gonna get into it, but it just it just like checks so many boxes for me that I couldn't help but love it.
Kara Edwards:Okay, so are you are you an anime fan? Or did this one because there wasn't like I was reading up on this there's a lot of discussion because typically anime originates in Japan but I know the people in Japan were like no anime is an it's a style of animation. It doesn't have to come from Japan and so people like the nuts it avatar is anime. I of course know only no anime is coming from Japan so that's going to be a hard one for me to swallow. But are you an anime fan? Or did this was this just a show that you you've found and fell in love with?
Unknown:I would say my my interest in anime was is pretty basic. You know? I can't I couldn't call myself a fan. It's like as as a kid I you know I watched Ninja Scroll and that was great. And Akira and stuff and and I watched a few episodes of Naruto and Dragonball Z and stuff. But I was never I was never a hardcore into that. I I think I think a lot of it is that like, because the the breakneck pace that they set for themselves and creating those shows, yeah. is amazing, incredible. Some of the hardest working people in entertainment. And yet it just the shows end up where they just never they just never had the level of content that I was looking for. I was always more interested in like, you know, just just tight, just slightly tighter stories like No, no offense. I know. I know.
Kara Edwards:No, you're exactly right. And especially I think the anime has evolved so much over the years where they they have found that but yeah, I mean, back when Avatar came out, I was like, 2005, right. Like, when you go back and watch the old anime and Dragonball Z and Naruto and some of the shows you've mentioned, they are so slow. And I can say that is one of the actors who voices this stuff. Like it is so slow that that's actually why they redid Dragonball Z and they came out with Dragonball Z ky is because they took all of that like, staring at each other where it would go from one to the other for like a minute and a half while they were like, Okay, we're gonna fight but we're not there yet. And you're at like Avatar moves along. Like you can tell this is definitely more of a American based cartoon and the pacing of
Unknown:it. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Laura Orr:Well, so do we want to answer the question?
Kara Edwards:Yeah, I guess we should start this song. I was actually thinking I was like, I am panicking a little bit. Because is there even a song with this one? It's like an instrument. It
Unknown:is. Yeah, it's like, up, up, up, up, up. Up anyway.
Laura Orr:But you're Eric,
Unknown:it's I mean, it's been my son is he's almost three years old. And we we've just like, played the soundtrack for him. And he's just really into that. So sometimes at dinnertime, he's just like, I want to listen to ng soundtrack. And we're like, okay, oh,
Laura Orr:soundtrack the music in the show is really awesome. For some reason. When I think of the credits, I think of the closing, and I don't know why, which is a lot more hyper. The drums? Yeah, I
Kara Edwards:think it's like, someone's going. Yeah. But you do know instantly, and it makes you want to watch that next episode, because they always end on a cliffhanger. And you're like, yes, but
Laura Orr:just kind of bop your head along to the end. Yeah. GameCredits. Super fun. Okay, now that we've gotten through the most important part of the show, which is the music, the song, Cara, should they watch it? Oh,
Kara Edwards:absolutely. I mean, they're obviously and we're gonna dive into this, there's some really heavy stuff that's dealt with in this show. You want to make sure your kids are at an age and social maturity, where they're going to be able to handle the topics that we're going to talk about. So this isn't going to be a show for all children. But you know, your kids, and you're going to know that moment, I felt perfectly comfortable watching this with my seven year old. And so yeah, it's I mean, there's a reason the show is so popular. And I know we're gonna dive into all that. So that was my very long, yes. So, Laura. Well, they should they watch it.
Laura Orr:I welcome your long. Yes. And I will echo that. I would say yes, I do think it is for a specific audience with a specific type of tastes, because it is a specific genre of TV. But this one does make it to the top of all of the best of series lists that you will find online. And there's a reason for that. And so I think if you are interested in anime, or I don't know, is it kung fu or Karate type lead movies where there's a lot of action? And you know, and fight scenes and things like that? I think that this would be a good place to start. Yeah. Really? Interesting. Series. So I mean, yes, Eric?
Unknown:Oh, I have Yeah. resounding yes. I know, I know, things were made this day and age, the the, you know, there would be more. There'd be more people of color involved in the creation of it. But they, at least for their time, were, you know, they were drawing on history. They weren't punching down. They did go out of their way to cast, you know, Filipino American voice actors or some of the leads Japanese American voice actors. And you know, they had people like James Hong and George Takei a guest star and so they they were doing some of the work again, like free 2015 is just feels like this was never happening. So they get like a little a little bump for even Yeah, right
Kara Edwards:outside of the box. I talk about this all day. The time on the podcast representation. And it is something that is so new to voice acting, which is, you know, both sad and wonderful. That that thank goodness we've gotten here but you're right. I think if it was cast today there, there would have been more diversity throughout but at least they they started there and voice acting is spectacular.
Laura Orr:And since you mentioned a Filipino American as part of the cast that that name is actually Dante Basco plays Zuko, aka Rufio, aka my husband,
Kara Edwards:like idol, right? He's
Laura Orr:like, he loves Rufio, he has put Rufio as photo as his Facebook profile picture,
Kara Edwards:does he know that I hung out with Rufio invention with him and Albuquerque, like, a couple of years ago. And we like went out and got drinks with the group and hung out he is one of the nicest most positive. Like,
Laura Orr:I can't believe you drink a beverage with I
Kara Edwards:totally had a beer with Rubio with Dante. And he is. And what's funny is at that time, I hadn't seen avatar, I honestly hadn't seen any of his voice work. So I was like, oh, cool, like, you know, Rufio and I'm sure you've done some other on camera acting and no, he's like, this ridiculously talented, successful voice actor, and I had no idea. And literally until we started doing this for the show that I was like, hey, Dante, he's so cool.
Laura Orr:I knew him. Amazing. No, Jeremy does not know that. I think if
Kara Edwards:you can tell him that he's going to live up to the hype. You know how they say never meet your heroes. Yeah, he can go meet Dante and he's not going to be disappointed. Oh, that
Laura Orr:news is going to make him very excited. It's gonna be a little sweaty when he hears about that.
Unknown:Really happy I heard he's got his own show now. And I heard him and I was like, Oh, he does sound like a nice guy. I want to believe but yeah, I worked my first jobs when I moved to LA, where as a caterer and like, not, I'm not going to get into story, but like, some people were so wonderful in some I was just like, I, I wish I'd never met you. Imagining
Kara Edwards:100% I like doing it I have the same experience when I go to conventions is, you know, the people who are the big celebrities at the conventions, it's going to be 5050. Sometimes I'm like, cool, they're gonna act like I am a little peon that needs to be underneath their shoe. And then the next one, you meet that you're like, Wow, that's a superstar that would never want to hang out with me. They're like, hey, why don't you want to go to dinner with all of us? And it happens all the time that I'm like, Oh, my God, you're amazing. You're like a normal person.
Laura Orr:Eric, who's it? Who's somebody that you can think of that you? That is like a joy that you met?
Unknown:Oh, Jack McBrayer from 30 Rock might be what he was most well known for. He played Kenneth the Page already. Right? Okay. Yeah, I had, I had like running bits with him one night, at a at an award after an award show and just, you know, bring him drinks and stuff. But he was just so incredibly friendly and funny. And just, yeah, it felt like if I if I hadn't been actually working with you know, you could have just hung out with them. One of the and David Spade surprisingly, too, you know, he seems like such an acerbic fellow all of his roles, but was incredibly kind. And it was like a really, really jam packed night. This, this all happened one particular night, and it was just a really hard shift. And I remember him like making space for me, because, you know, like, fellow little guys helping each other out. And he was like, gone, you know, and it was just, it was all it really, like, really, really touched me that night. So you just you just never know. Because that night some other people wouldn't
Kara Edwards:know. Yeah, no, I totally get it.
Laura Orr:Yeah. David Spade is also one of those people. That seems like he could cut someone down really quickly, just based on the comedy that he
Kara Edwards:Oh, yeah. He wanted to Yeah, the power. So tonight, it's nice to hear that he's
Laura Orr:just, you know, he reserves that for when needed, when it's necessary, or when he wants to make people laugh. I love that.
Kara Edwards:And kind of like, I mean, here if we're talking about the difference between good and evil, and the story arcs of, of characters to bring it back to you like how I said right back. Yeah, is that's one of my favorite parts of this entire series is you have the character that that grows throughout our prints who start so evil and has that arc to where he can become good.
Laura Orr:Yep, he does. He does. And a lot they really spent a lot of time with a lot of the characters in developing who they were throughout the show, and what they worked on within themselves. I really appreciated the level of detail that they would use and how they would carry on certain parts of their personality and kind of nurture it and let it develop throughout the series and flush it out. That was one of the really positive things that I thought that they did. But before we get into more things that we loved about it, because I think that's a very long list. Eric, do you want to explain the premise of the show?
Unknown:Oh, sure. So Avatar The Last Airbender, there was a, there are sort of four styles of martial arts slash magic, you control, air, water, fire, or earth. And each of those is also sort of separated into its own kingdom in this world. And the long ago, the now I feel like I'm just reciting the intro, but the Fire Nation decided that they wanted to spread their their success and joy and you know, wealth and prosperity, what the rest of the world which means they became imperialistic invaders, and they wiped out this, which they don't, you know, they kind of gloss over this a little bit, they wipe out the entire Arab nation, which is where the Last Airbender Aang is from, he gets frozen and ice long story, but comes back 100 years later, and now the world's kind of a mass and the the war is almost over the fire nation is winning the earth kingdoms almost like the last bastion, though, you know, the water kingdoms losing, and Aang has to sort of master all the elements, get all these different martial arts magics under his belt, in order to take on the Fire Lord, before he can sort of finish this war once and for all.
Kara Edwards:And I found it was really interesting because you talked about the martial arts in here. And the the elemental bending movements are actually based on these different arts and so earthbending you have kung fu firebending is a different type of Kung Fu, northern Shaolin, I believe waterbending Tai Chi airbending is a word that I wouldn't be able to pronounce if given the pronunciation, it's like bog Baguazhang. I think it's a different style of art, but the they're actually based on real art so you can see them doing when they're doing their bending.
Unknown:Yeah, it. It's super cool. I studied karate, rather than kung fu. I only ever dabbled in Kung Fu. I, I took a few lessons, but I just, I didn't have time to make more but just only enough to appreciate that this, this is the real deal. They they they put so much care into the craft of it. And while it is a fantastical world, it is still you know, inspired by history that that they studied and
Kara Edwards:you can and you can really see it. I did. I grew up doing Taekwondo. And so kung fu was also one of those things. I took a few classes in and a scream a stick and different arts Aikido. And so it's it is interesting to see the characters doing the movements correctly. Yeah, they did not shortchange that when they animated this.
Unknown:Yeah. No, they have like, choreographers on, you know, on staff for that show. Yeah. Which is, which is amazing.
Laura Orr:Yeah, did you guys know that Netflix disrupted a production on a live action series, so we're going to expect to see a live action avatar?
Kara Edwards:Yeah, apparently they tried to do what I read about it. I never saw it. I guess it was a disaster. It's M
Laura Orr:Night Shyamalan. It was a disaster. I did sounds like
Unknown:of course, I saw. I was so excited, um, night was was not fully off the map at that point. And I was like, wow, why he chose to do this. It's gonna be so amazing. And it just, I don't know. I mean, it was bad on so many levels. And it was you know, the, I mean, the cast was all white and the martial arts was goofy and the and the special effects were were bad and and the and the story which it's based off of this amazing story, but they tried to turn it all you know, the entire like, first season essentially into one movie and they it's like they just cut out all of the heart and humor and left it as this kind of like dour. Weird. Garbage.
Kara Edwards:So disappointing when they do that with something. Dragonball Z did a live action movie 100 years ago, and we use it at conventions to like roast it. It's so it's like, how do you take something that is so loved, and just really mess it up?
Laura Orr:I was wondering that too. Because when I saw a preview for it, that's as far as I went. Yeah. Okay. It looked so serious in the end. He's not he's very jovial. I mean, that's a child. Yes. And that's one of the things that he has to kind of work in getting to work with as he He grows in during the series and I felt like I don't know I haven't seen the movie but it looked like they made him very serious. I don't know did they are Yeah,
Unknown:yeah, there's no there's no like reconciliation of childhood versus adulthood which I feel like is what you get to see with with it's just this kid is just fully is just fully serious face. But they give him like a couple of little jokes to be like, Ah, no, I'm a little pan like trickster but like it just it just doesn't it's like it never gets past his eyes. Which is not I mean he is he's a kid and he was an amazing martial artists and everything. It's more of a it's more of a writing than then his execution.
Laura Orr:Yeah, I That poor kid retired after that. Maybe you imagine a child being cast in a huge production like that. And I think it was like one of his first and then it just flops and everyone just hates it. So because avatar, this franchise is fiercely beloved by like, this is a very, very passionate group of, you know, fandom here,
Kara Edwards:but this is why was it yeah, this is why he was so scared to review it because I was like, what if we don't like it? Yeah, like they they they're not going to be okay with us. Yeah, it's great.
Laura Orr:That was one of Canada's biggest fears is like if we miss our present this show, like we're going to be crapped on so hard. And Karen, I like to read one star reviews on IMDb sometimes, and I'm now sitting here wishing that we had that pulled up for the movie because I bet they got real cream. Oh, yeah, they were creativity with that movie. I will say the show had none. The show is like almost perfect on IMDb. This finale is 9.9 out of 10 stars like wow. I mean, it is
Kara Edwards:crazy. Isn't it like 100% on Rotten Tomatoes? I am not looking at that right now. But I remember seeing something where I was like, Oh man, we better like the show. Right?
Laura Orr:Yeah, no, it's it's Beloved. It is. My wife has
Unknown:a tough tattoo on her shoulder and yeah, okay,
Kara Edwards:tough. Hands down. Oh, it's a it is a big toss up between Tov and oh, what's the sister's name? That's voiced by Grey Delisle. Great. Oh, Azula Zula. It's a toss up for me for my favorite characters are between Azula just because gray does like, Oh, she's such a ridiculously good job. I heard she won this role in the audition, because like all the other voice actors is one and we're like, I'm gonna, you know, as you would do in an audition like this. They're gonna emote and yell and, and get really big with their reactions. And they said when Gray came in for the audition, she, she never yelled, she never raised her voice because she had studied this character. And she was like, I really feel like this character would wouldn't need to raise her voice because she would her power would come from somewhere else. And there was no question. I think the character was even drawn off of some of Grey's headshots.
Unknown:It does. There is a resemblance there. I just have to totally agree with you some of the best voice acting I've ever heard that guy. Yeah, as well as legendary. Yeah.
Laura Orr:Eric, who's your favorite character?
Unknown:Well, personally, it's got to be Zuko. For me. I just it's just because he has to deal with so much. And yeah, I mean, I didn't go through anywhere near the kind of stuff that Zuko went through as a child, but you're just not an absolutely perfect childhood on every level. And I just feel like to try to come out of that and, and find kindness. It can be a really difficult journey and it I just remember being so surprised at that as they turned him around. And it just seems like now it's something that happens a lot more often in TV especially, but like in kid shows, the villains were just always the villains. And there wasn't they
Kara Edwards:didn't have that arc where they grew and where they improved or they discovered things about themselves or
Laura Orr:or were you even learned about why the why of things they would just came in as purely evil.
Kara Edwards:Yeah, this this was one of the first articles I found when I started Googling. This show was there is a fantastic article that was written by a guy about how this show saved him growing up because it was the first time that he had seen a character represent something that he had experienced because he was in a very abusive home with a father who always told him he was never good enough and seeing that represented and seeing the character of Zuko overcome the abuse and the alienation and the abandonment and everything that Zuko has to go through in overcoming that and finding his own Strength to become such a great person was so inspiring. And oh, nothing gets me more than when a kids TV show can nail something like that. And inspire people and inspire kids and speak to kids. And I think this show does this on so many levels.
Laura Orr:Yeah, I totally agree. And for anyone who's interested in watching the show, you can find it on Netflix, Paramount, plus Roku channel, Amazon plus Apple TV, Google YouTube, basically anywhere you want to
Kara Edwards:watch basically all the places now am I right, that this wasn't available for a very long time. Like it's kind of just recently available, at least on Netflix. You
Unknown:are right. Yeah, I remember because that was like, you know, my fourth or fifth rewatch or something? I was like, Oh, it's on Netflix. Now. Gotta watch it again.
Kara Edwards:Yeah, let's watch it one more time.
Laura Orr:Well, and then it spread, because it's everywhere now. So anywhere you want to watch it, you're able to and who do you guys think is the audience?
Kara Edwards:Oh, I mean, I know I mentioned this earlier. I think it's, it's not going to be the youngest of young kids. I don't think anyone's going to be damaged watching this. But, you know, as as we, as we mentioned it, this show is going to deal with some really heavy topics. There is an abusive father son relationship going on. And they do not shy away from showing how awful this father is. There's a episode I think it's called the storm. And I was so fascinated watching Dante's voice acting in this one, because I don't know if maybe he was actually maybe a little sick or hoarse that day, or if that was a choice that he made that he actually made Prince Sukkot sound, he just sounds so bone weary, and hoarse and tired, but in the show, he's, you know, going through this thing, and he's remembering back, he's traveling, he's very hungry, he's dehydrated, and he's remembering back to his childhood. And so they show like, how he was alienated and put aside and, and, and abused by his father and how his mother, you know, was this kind of saving grace for him, but then she she left his life. And it's, I mean, there's a powerful stuff that goes on.
Laura Orr:Yeah, I would agree. I think that the themes in the show are definitely for a more older audience. I would say tweens and teens probably would, unless you have a seven year old like mine. Yeah, right. In front of it. Yes. If you have fans of anime or martial arts shows, like I had said earlier, I think they could go a little bit younger and maybe the the more serious content might just even go over their heads because there is a lot of things to look at. There's a lot of fun animal hybrids that you get to learn about, that I think would appeal to younger kids and the action is very fun and avatars evilness?
Kara Edwards:Yeah. Like, Eric, you have a three year old would you let your three year old watch this?
Unknown:Yeah, I mean, honestly, my three year old has watched it and it's an I am very much of the opinion of like, if I'm going to watch something with my kid, I'm going to be talking to them about what we're seeing at all times. And you know, let it went especially when they're interested or something bigs happening, allow it to be a conversation so mostly he just wants to see APA. And Momo you know and badger moles and all these other weird animal hybrid you were talking about? But and he thinks the physical comedy is funny and sometimes if it's a fight we'll just you know, we'll just turn it off because he doesn't have that sort of narrative follow through just yet so we'll just be like okay, we're gonna say goodbye now or whatever Yeah, but yeah, I've I've I have let him watch it. I don't feel like it was bad. I mean, I'm not ready to talk about genocide with him just yet which is like definitely something Yeah, it's huge. I mean, a huge thing that they they don't really talk about this my one of my bigger bumps in the show is the Fire Nation is like now we're going to usher everyone into the future but we're but we're just still not going to talk about how we wiped out an entire race.
Kara Edwards:I mean, so much genocide I mean indoctrination there's war there's I mean, yeah, but but like you said it is there and I think your older viewer is going to clearly understand that that's what's going on. A younger viewer I don't think is going to pick up on exactly what yeah
Unknown:they don't dwell on it and I think they do like deal with those more in and Cora which is which is like if this is a tween show Cora is more of like a teen show okay, but you know a different different episodes different conversation.
Kara Edwards:Yeah, and next time, we're gonna need three weeks
Laura Orr:to prepare.
Kara Edwards:There's no question there's a reason this is this is one five Andy awards. This is one agenesis award. This is On a Primetime Emmy Award a Kid's Choice Award Peabody Award it's regarded as probably one of the greatest animated television series of all time just because it deals with things that especially in 2005 We didn't see these dealt with on a kid show. And you know when if you look what I think nothing drove this home like okay, this shows a really big deal nothing drove that home for me more than when as I always do, I looked up the cast list, and Mark Hamill is listed as an additional voice. And when you have a show that Mark Hamill, who was one of the greatest like actors voice actors out there is listed as like I'd you could never so many as I went through the list of recognizable actors because ang and his crew and Katara who I loved Katara as they traveled through with ABA through these different worlds and cities and what have you, they it allows for so many guest voice actors to come on and I feel you really see it more in season two and three where I'm like, Okay, so basically everybody watched the show they thought it was amazing and then they were like hey agent can you get me a guest starring role and actor because it's going to be like one of those shows that we watch for generations who
Laura Orr:like I got your role as a bumbling guard down and your your your role here words are
Unknown:just like James Hong, who is an incredible voice actor and has been doing this for ages and he's just he just plays Mayer tongue and like this avatar Kiyoshi trial Episode It's just I mean it's a it's a pretty small role, but he absolutely nails it and that is another strength of the show is they they bring in these like these guests that just really fill up these these smaller roles and help those stories pop even on what might otherwise seem like a one off episode.
Kara Edwards:You know what I read a rumor that Jeff Goldblum had originally been cast as Zuko why and then he dropped out. Do you do like sketch it's a rumor he remember it was on IMDb. So obviously I think it's true.
Laura Orr:Substantial age difference.
Kara Edwards:That was where apparently Jeff Goldblum maybe was originally cast and he dropped out and then they were like, Let's go with Dante. I think very glad they did
Laura Orr:self awareness. They're like, I don't know if this is the right role.
Kara Edwards:Maybe 16 is a little young. I've just finished Jurassic Park.
Laura Orr:Right, exactly. I think that this because this is a Nickelodeon show as well, that this is something that stood out among the landscape of what was coming out at the time to which I think could be also very exciting for people who want to be involved in this production of this show or anything. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was great. Um, what else do we like with the show?
Kara Edwards:I mean, I there's so much to like, Eric, I this is this is your baby. So I'm gonna let you take it.
Unknown:Well, another we're just talking about little, you know, rumors and stuff. And one thing is that Dante did not know about Zuko was character arc at the beginning, they kept all that stuff hidden from him. So he was just giving really authentic readings of kind of like an angsty, angry, somewhat villainous, you know, pretty like toxically male teen and he and so it just feels like so organic, his evolution as as a character and as a voice actor, he just does such a good job with it. We've, you know, we've talked about TOF being such an amazing character, and I think she is the closest I mean, again, this is it's pre 2015 It's like right she's she's the closest to a non heteronormative character that we've yet and I just think that she's she's she's just awesome if you know if they were a remake I think they would they would follow that you know, story maybe a little bit more and and let her find herself a little bit more but
Kara Edwards:cheese. Hey, I would love to see that.
Unknown:Yeah, yeah, that would, that would that would make me really happy that the one labs like only irksome thing about toffee as they do in the tails of Boston, say, which is an otherwise amazing episode. They have like they give her a makeover. And it's like no man, and she ran away from home because they dressed her up like a princess like she doesn't need a makeover. She's beautiful. Want
Kara Edwards:to be that? Yeah, I think they originally were wanting in the very original writing of the show. I read they were wanting to have her be like a male character and she was gonna be big and tough. And it started as a joke. Like, Wouldn't it be funny if the greatest earthbender of all time was like this little 12 year old girl? And they were like, Well, wait a second. What if the greatest earthbender of all time was a 12 year old girl and it kind of went from there. Aaron, I feel like this show really confronts gender norms. There's the episode where they're in Kiyoshi Yeah, and they, they dress Sukkot up as a woman, and it's there is this like, wait a second, you don't think that we can fight you want to join us, you want to learn to be as good as us, like they, they, which is very progressive for 2005.
Laura Orr:But I also really like about Toph is, is how they used her as non seeing, you see that a lot more now in, in content, but at the time, they weren't really using characters in this way. And she's such a strong, powerful person. And she's, I mean, one of the most, you know, badass, I guess, people on this show, and her, you know, the way that she uses her seeing through feeling and touch, and how it's just not used as her as like a crush crush or a disability. It's not at all used in that way in which I think at the time, more people would use characters in that way. And so I feel like it was advanced for that reason too early. Like,
Unknown:yeah, and in fact, she's, she's, I mean, she's such a powerhouse that, like they're able to, she's able to, like make fun of her own self sometimes, you know, in which is just wonder wonderful character she would she's easily my my second favorite character and my my wife's favorite. And, and that's and that's an a list of people who are just all pretty amazing. And
Kara Edwards:I say that gives you a lot to choose from and, and the writing is amazing. There were so many little things that I found myself writing down, harsh words won't solve problems, action will, you know, even some of the darker lines, you know, when Prince Sukkot is talking, you know, my dad always said she was born lucky. And I was lucky to be born. You know, there was, like, you know, we rely on the balance of the elements. I really liked that, that they talked so much about the elements because that was fun for me to talk to Michael about me, like, you know, there are these elements and, and about
Laura Orr:how the moon was the original waterbender. Yeah,
Kara Edwards:story and how you need the balance. Like there's the whole episode where the moon goddess, you know, is killed, and then someone else transcends, and there's a lot of love stories and things in there. And Michael had made a comment. It was the first time that Sokka was kissing who became the eventual man. And Michael's like, over there, on his iPad doing something during this episode, and he just looks up he goes great. So they're over there kissing and I'm over here killing zombies.
Laura Orr:This Yes, you are.
Kara Edwards:They are kissing it. Yes, you are.
Laura Orr:I like her. We just like says what it is. But the tone is like doing that. Well. And I'm over here. Why are we upset right now?
Kara Edwards:You know, it's something that I feel like it's seven, he's just starting to, like recognize or see, like, they're kissing what does that mean? And so again, I feel like the there's things in this that they tiptoe into, but they don't just, you know, the violence isn't going to be gory, necessarily. You know, this is a safe show.
Unknown:And they do I mean, granted it, yes, it's a safe show, it is also showing martial arts at the same time, but Aang is non violent. That is his, that is his entire people are non violent. And that and that is something that he grapples with, throughout the show up until, you know, spoilers, the very, very end when he's trying to find a way to defeat the Fire Lord with without killing them. And he is grappling that for multiple episodes, which is, which, again, you don't you don't really see it's either they it's usually just they conveniently fall off a cliff, you know, into the problem solved.
Kara Edwards:There goes Mark Hamill. Okay, so what are the things I mean, we've already listed several of them the potentially problematic we obviously have this abusive father son relationship going on. We've talked a little bit about the violence, there's some scary imagery. Is there anything else that you guys found? I mean, it's it's so loved, it's hard to think of things problematic, but anything else you guys have thought of?
Unknown:Yeah, I mean, it's more just triggering. Some might be for some for some folks, if there was a really great article by Julia Shiota on Sci Fi wire, about how she she felt that it wasn't actually tokenizing because of how it draws from Asian history. And I think that's a really could read for anyone who wants to, is inspired by avatar and wants to, you know, do their own storytelling and pull in influences from things that inspire them without being, you know, without, without just being a thief, without just like plagiarizing other cultures or, or what, even worse, you know, punching down for the sake of entertainment.
Laura Orr:One thing that I felt like might want to give people a heads up on especially in season three, there are a lot of, you know, teenage relationships, crushes, things like that. So depending on you know, what age your child is, that becomes a lot more front and center as the show moves on. And some of the relationship dynamics are reminiscent of what you would expect of teenage romance. So especially between so Sukkot Yeah, May. So you will, you'll witness and you know, drama between the, you know, these people jealousy, very strong feelings for one person that changes and moves on to another person. So, it's very, what you I think, would kind of see in teenage romance, but
Kara Edwards:also with rock bands. What I thought of that I was like, You guys are literally on tour. You're just you're just the differences is that your bus? Is this like hybrid manatee bison character. On your bus, going city to city and finding your girlfriend in that city. I thought this is a martial
Laura Orr:arts version of Fleetwood Mac went through
Kara Edwards:Yeah, this is a much more elemental deep thinking version of Aerosmith.
Unknown:I get just just a small thing that, like Katara and NGS relationship is way more feels to me like it just shouldn't be romantic it like I agree.
Kara Edwards:Sorry, I didn't mean to scream at you. i This bothered me so much watching it because I was like, he feels so much younger than her and I never could find her specific age. I was putting her around that like probably 15 Two years apart. She's two years older than I never heard that said, and I must have missed it. But it I just it I don't know what that relationship bothered me too. It's like, like, why can't they just be like, friends, their friends.
Unknown:And also, um, she's kind of the the leader and she takes on a very maternal role. And, and it's like, if you're just if you're just taking care of someone for all that time, you should I just, it just, it bothers me on an on like, a kind of icky level. But I don't I don't think it was meant that way. They just, they just needed to change that relationship at some point, if they were gonna make it romantic, because you don't just turn around and smooch that person at the end. It's just weird, right? You know, you're just like, good, you know, I want to see you go and flourish. But, you know, it's essentially it's like I changed your diapers. I mean, that would be a parent. Like I'm not that's that's just not our relationship.
Laura Orr:I think it's also hard to make a romance with inks character work, because he is very childlike, and immature, especially at the beginning. And he is wrestling with his immaturity at times. And so to have somebody kind of with that personality, I think it is hard to match them up with someone also. So I don't know if he would have if it would have it would have had to be very clever to find someone a love interest for him. Yeah, a lot of stuff going on. It's not really necessary for him that
Kara Edwards:hopefully saving the world thing like goes Yes. What are you doing to prevent
Laura Orr:further more genocide? You know, but still has time to fall in love, I guess. But if that were to happen, I think it's gonna be hard to find to do that successfully just because of who he was. Yeah, yeah, at least that's what I think I got
Kara Edwards:me and there was so much like against Sukkot, especially with like, I have a crush. I have a crush. And we even saw with Katana, Leo. I've got a crush. I've got a crush in Yes. Something about his like, he could have crushes. I wouldn't mind it that and they could have talked about that. But there I also found that kind of icky and weird.
Unknown:Yeah, it is forgivable because the show is so wonderful. I just yeah, it's just I think a more mature version of the show written these days is like you You don't you don't parent someone and then fall in love with them. That's not That's not a healthy dynamic. But that that may be because I am now a parent. And so I'm just like seeing these things. A new life. You know, we all sort of relive so
Kara Edwards:this would be advice. I would tell my stepdaughter if you're needing to be their mommy, you don't need to be their wife. Like that's exactly what I would say. I think we can a lot of women can relate. I was gonna say I felt like this is something that I'll Well, a lot of women would understand,
Laura Orr:maybe that's what's playing out in the, in the character to just what the, you know, something that happened
Kara Edwards:in May and that maybe the modern version is worked on it turns around and is like Aang Come on,
Laura Orr:grow up. Yeah. I think that they would rewrite rewrite a lot of the romantic relationships if I were being honest. Because again, I'd go back to Zuko in May, that was such an irritating relationship personally to watch. There was just a lot of like, fooling fun. Oh, I love you. Oh, yeah. You know, very, like, I mean, I again, it's, it's a team relationship, a lot of teams are trying to figure out what works and doesn't work and relationships, and they will make a lot of mistakes. And, you know, they it's, it's a very immature time. And but at the same time, it was just kind of hard to watch. And I don't know if I would really want them to be role models for my teens watching these kinds of shows. So I think that they would probably have a lot of change to make when it came to that. versus some of the other stuff, which is just great. But I think that might have been a weak spot of theirs. Yeah. You
Unknown:know, like I always imagined after the end of so many shows that the characters would just be split up again, like three months later, you know, like Ross and Rachel and friends. And like that was they just made it tidy, because they needed to end the show, but like, like Mei, Mei and Zuko, dunzo guitarra, it might take her like two years to realize, Wait, I can't date this person. They they require too much care. You know, like Sokka and Suki. She's like, she lives on a different island. Is she going to give up her life as a warrior? That's right, really complicated.
Laura Orr:And I think a lot of conversation has been had around this kind of things where relationships are born out of traumatic experiences called trauma bonding, yeah, people get together because you know, after something they share a trauma and usually that those relationships have a lot of hardships. I was gonna work they're
Kara Edwards:not healthy a lot of time and it can trap you into a very unhealthy relationship. Yep.
Unknown:Yeah, that just be that that'd be one of those things that I'd be like bothering my kids with and being like, see the CEO this dynamic here. not healthy. Sorry, you know, I just don't do boys.
Laura Orr:Do it early. Because when they're 16, they'll be like, whatever Dad, you don't understand. You. Know, me, they just don't understand each other and they just need to work it out. They've been through so much just fine.
Kara Edwards:Next question, we always ask on the podcast, which I think is like, literally almost doesn't have to be asked on this one. But will parents also enjoy this?
Unknown:I think big time. Yeah.
Kara Edwards:I think this one, I think this is an easy, I thoroughly enjoyed watching this with Michael. Cool.
Laura Orr:Yeah, it's definitely a show for older people to enjoy, especially when we have to sit through things like cocoa melon, you know?
Kara Edwards:Oh, great. Yeah, no, no. This is something
Laura Orr:that you'll actually follow. It's something that you have to follow if you are to enjoy it, because it is plot heavy. Yeah. Where kids might get lost in the plot. I mean, I myself found you know, where it was getting lost at times. And I had to read up on what did I forget, what did I miss out on because there are so many characters, there is so much going on. And so it's fun as a parent to be able to sit down and enjoy something like that with your child, that you're not just kind of gritting your teeth through and
Kara Edwards:the comedy is like the comedy is funny. Yeah, the economy isn't just fart jokes, like the comedy is a lot of it is like, Oh, we found ourselves both laughing out loud. I mean, don't get me wrong. There's fart jokes in there. But say I love definitely some fart jokes. But it's not just like silliness. It's No, that's good comedy.
Unknown:The bit with the cabbages is still just one of the all time and ongoing Oh, yes. It just really pays off for me, even when I rewatch it. Wow. I mean, my
Laura Orr:God, is that all
Kara Edwards:you got it and so Eric, do you have anything else that you wanted to add? Oh, I
Unknown:could go on forever. But I feel like I just go watch the show.
Kara Edwards:That this is one to definitely like, I mean, this was such an easy yes. For me. There's again, there's a reason it's it's so popular. And it was fun to dive into all the backstories of the actors and the writing process and how it all came together.
Laura Orr:There's so many themes that we didn't touch on. Because again, this is such a dense show though. I at one point was watching this and I was like man, if if we I could easily do an episode of like a podcast episode per season easily because there's no so especially when it comes to the themes of the show that the the there's a lot of themes around age and passage of time and having to To account for that going you know there's just there's so much to dissect when it comes to this but I just don't think we could even I
Kara Edwards:was gonna say already yeah this is if you're a fan of Avatar we would love to hear your thoughts so what have we missed anything at all that should be mentioned because again there's so much to cover. And this is a good one and worth worth the watch. And Eric, thank you for joining us and thank you for bringing this to us. Thank you for forcing me to finally sit down and watch it and talk about it on the podcast. Yes, Eric
Laura Orr:was thrilled so much shade having you so much and before we leave where would you like people to go if they want to follow you on social media? Or learn more about your podcast or anything else that you've been up to?
Unknown:Oh, thank you. Yeah, well, so my show is what if world stories for kids you can find it wherever you listen to podcasts, we have a Patreon we have Apple podcasts premium subscription if you want to listen without ads, you get ad free on on either of those. And you can follow us on Instagram at what if world podcasts we I just I love I love doing this show. I hope that you enjoy it. I think it is sort of a five to 11 is our core listenership. But we have listeners as young as three, we have had plenty of teenagers that are that are still sending me in questions. And you know, when I say to all the kids, you know, you can just send in a what if question with your grownups permission, and help wherever necessary. You can. And a lot of those are shared on social media. Those would have questions and some and sometimes they'll with their with their grownups permission, send them to what if world podcast@gmail.com
Kara Edwards:Amazing, Eric, thank you. I loved all of your thoughts and everything that you brought today.
Unknown:Oh, thanks. It's I've never been able to like officially nerd out about this. So truly glorious, thank you.
Kara Edwards:Amazing. Come back anytime. Anytime you have a show. We would love to have you.
Unknown:Thank you, Shira. Okay. Oh my
Kara Edwards:god. Did we love Shira? I would put Shira up here like Avatar and Shira we there was
Laura Orr:another beast
Kara Edwards:that was another beast yeah
Laura Orr:good one on one
Kara Edwards:thank you so much everybody go follow us give us stars reviews we love all that stuff. You can find us it should they watch it on Instagram Twitter, and all the places podcast it should they watch it if you want to tell us how badly we've mangled this review. Anything you can please reach out.
Laura Orr:Make any recommendations for shows you'd like us to review we definitely take that into consideration. We've been getting a lot of requests lately and we greatly appreciate really appreciate it. You guys are the reason that we reviewed the land for time so we really appreciate everything, you know that you give us. So thank you guys. You can also find our website www dot should they watch? a.com
Kara Edwards:Awesome. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see you next week. Scribe and follow us on Instagram