Should They Watch It?
Should They Watch It?
Ep. 61: Lost Ollie
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Lost Ollie premiered on Netflix to critical acclaim. Fans seem to love this limited series! But before you allow your kids to watch it...Laura and Kara have some serious concerns. Who exactly IS the audience here? The ladies will do their best to figure that out, and along the way they'll discuss mental health, imaginary friends, and...when exactly does this show take place?! Tune in for an interesting journey in this episode of Should They Watch It?
The views and opinions expressed by the should they watch it podcast are those of two moms who happen to be a registered play therapist and a voice actor for cartoons. So while they may feel their opinions come from a knowledgeable place, they are still in fact just opinions. Should they watch it? A podcast that takes the task of reviewing your kid's favorite shows up your to do list? Hey there and welcome to the should they watch it Podcast. I'm Cara Edward.
Laura Orr:And I'm Laura Orr.
Kara Edwards:And I don't know if I'm gonna be okay today. Oh, really? i The show that we are diving into. I do not fully understand how to talk about yet. And I'm like, I'm glad I actually had the Sadhas I finished it late last night with my son. I had the thought I'm so glad that you're a therapist.
Laura Orr:Oh boy. Because
Kara Edwards:I feel like there's so much to work through today.
Laura Orr:And we are simply not going to be able to get through all of it. No way are talking about the CRAM packed full of emotional trauma. Movie ish
Kara Edwards:nets like a limited series limited
Laura Orr:series. Episode last Ollie last. Oh, me and there is no music? Oh, no, totally. But if I were to suggest music, it would probably just be the wailing cries of everybody who watched because social media has been sobbing over this show series. All week. All week are visits. It's released on the 22nd of August. Yeah, so for about a month now. It is the tear jerker that I guess a bunch of people didn't realize that they needed or wanted because they are loving it. So so much. But Kara, I am so curious to know from you. Should they watch it?
Kara Edwards:This has not happened in 70 Plus episodes that we have recorded together? I don't know. And I'm gonna work it out while we while we talk about the series. And I'm gonna give you an answer by the end. But I literally don't know if I'm a yes or no. Because as a mom of a seven year old. I'm a no. As someone who can see potential usefulness for the series for older children. Yeah, I could be yes. So I am literally I don't know until you and I have talked about this. That is then I will decide
Laura Orr:that is totally fair. Can I ask you? Did you watch it with Michael though?
Kara Edwards:I watched the entire thing with Michael, how's he do and he walked out a couple of times. He literally got up and walked out and went I don't understand why we're watching this. And I was like, Hey, buddy, you don't have to watch this. Like he was upset. Yeah, I thought this was a kid show. So I was like, Hey, want to watch something with fun little animals. And then I'm like, This is Oh, this is a lot. This is a lot. So I told him like, you don't have to watch it. I do have to watch it because of the podcasts. And he thought he would tell me he's like, No, hang on. I want to I'm going to watch this with you. And he would come back and we'd watch a little bit and then he'd stand up and leave the room and be like, I'm out. He had so many thoughts. We're gonna go through it all, but I'm gonna ask you next. Laura, last Dolly? Should they watch it?
Laura Orr:Kara? I have no idea
Kara Edwards:that this has never happened. We have so much to go through. I'm gonna start with the premise of the show. And basically, I want you guys to imagine Toy Story. Minus Tom Hanks and joy.
Laura Orr:I thought this is very similar. Something very similar. I thought this is Toy Story meets this is us meets Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
Kara Edwards:in complete darkness. And yet
Laura Orr:somewhere we are supposed to really search for a glimmer of hope, happiness, optimism. I it's a hard watch. I think this one is up to parents. I'm personally glad that I watched it without Daphne. I don't think she would have made it through.
Kara Edwards:No, I honestly wish I hadn't watched it with Michael. I feel like he and I have had, he has asked so many questions about it. And we've had to tie it in not in a way that we talked about utilizing shows to like, like Land Before Time if you want to talk about grief for it not in that way in a way that I felt like I've had to counsel him.
Laura Orr:Right. That's the thing is it's just so much and I think regardless of what week I'm too by the end of this podcast. I think we will both agree that before you decide whether or not you want your child to watch this, you should just watch it first. Yes, absolutely. So we're Yeah, I mean, over everything like, just watch it first. It's not. I don't I don't even know if it's enjoyable at this point. Maybe that's something I'll have to get to because there's certain things about this series that also is a matter of personal taste that just wasn't working for me anyways. And then you add the fact that it covers so it's any heavy topics. I mean, where do we start? There's grief, bullies, imaginary friends, trauma, the treatment of adoptive families by society, racism, gender, toy murder, where does it end it just the list goes on and on. And Hey, kids, Ollie is voiced by Jonathan Graf. You may know him as Christoph from Frozen. So all the while you get to listen to Christoph with a country added says get the southern accent get tortured, get tortured and it's just and I
Kara Edwards:thought maybe that was my problem going into this is it Ali sounds so much like one of my former booking agents that I had to fire because I he caused so many issues and so much drama in my life and their voices are identical, like the accent is identical. So the whole time, I was listening to this, I'm like, I was triggered to begin with. And so I was like, Okay, you have to put that out of your mind and be objective, even though you are like reliving that terrible year with that terrible agent.
Laura Orr:And now you have to hear him be sad. Oh, is it
Kara Edwards:it just kept getting worse and darker and sadder. And for me, I didn't I want to be real clear. And I'm sorry for everyone who just thought this was so great. I did not enjoy this. Okay, I did not enjoy this experience. I
Laura Orr:think that's fair to say. I think you have to be in a certain headspace and like a certain type of content to say that, that you enjoyed this.
Kara Edwards:It's, uh, you know, I enjoyed the destination. I did not enjoy the journey. Okay. I appreciate where we went. And I'm gonna go ahead and just let everyone know, there's no way for us to review the show. Without complete spoilers, totally.
Laura Orr:So the premise in itself is going to have some spoiler. Yeah. So this is the
Kara Edwards:point in the podcast where you guys want to turn it off, go watch last dollies find out for yourself, if you want to watch this with your children, and then come back and hear the review. We're giving you the warning. Like, there's no way to talk about this without talking about it completely. Right.
Laura Orr:Yeah. So the premise is that a little boy who is adopted by this lovely couple,
Kara Edwards:okay, but that's like a surprise at the end. They don't come out with that in the beginning, like he's adopted. It's like, Oh, you were adopted, they
Laura Orr:got treated, they did show the family getting treated in very insensitive ways. And so the assumption could be made no question. Yeah, the conversation doesn't happen until episode four, right? Because there's four episodes. By the way, each one about an hour long or an hour, 45 minutes, 35 minutes. And you can find it on Netflix. We'll just get that out of the way. Yep. But he so his mother makes him this doll that he loves. So very much the doll happens to speak, you know, to the boy only, and then he loses the doll through a set of circumstances. And then it's really just about this doll trying to find his way back to this little boy, Billy.
Kara Edwards:Yeah, but we start off with not knowing that much information. So we just start off understanding that Ali has lost. There's a little boy Billy who's looking for Ali Ali's looking for Billy. And that's where we start. And this is the adventures that Ali and Billy go through. While Billy is dealing with intense grief because it becomes very clear very early on that his mother's very sick. There's a series of flash forwards and flashbacks and it's pretty obvious that she's not going to make it and that he's dealing with grief while looking for Ollie. So there is this raised what's the word I'm looking for? Like it's real important that he finds Ollie because he lost his mom.
Laura Orr:Right? This doll means a lot to him this doll has a lot of there's a lot of memories attached to this stall. There's a lot of love put into the making of this stall. The stall is stitched together with history and love
Kara Edwards:which again comes at the very end and so the things that are actually lovely about this story you've got to get through so much to get to those last 15 minutes. Like I my notes ended up being written very stream of conscious where and literally I was just like oh good, toxic masculinity. Oh, cool mom enables the toxic masculinity. Oh, there's a lot of bad words in this. We've got words like sorry crap, hell damn dumbass. pessat Yeah. All coming out during the show. Oh good. There's more mom death. There's lots of mom death going on. There's Oh, they're good. Cool. There's some racism. Throw that in there too. And then like, Oh, Michael is not into this. There's even kids fighting in a bar.
Laura Orr:Like they're in the middle of the night in the middle of the night. In the middle of the night. Yeah,
Kara Edwards:I have. There's again, there's so much to unpack. I didn't even know how to
Laura Orr:while okay, I was gonna wait. But since you've already mentioned it, can we talk about
Kara Edwards:the bars? The bar scene is bothering me. I think more than any part of this show. It's like
Laura Orr:is is Michael Jackson's Beat. It was in a bar. Right? That's what it that's the one I can't I sometimes forget the difference between now and bad. Yes. That is what it reminded me of if if Michael Jackson's Beat It was between two children, because they are literally fighting with pool sticks while adults watch and just drunk adults because it's the middle of the night. Yeah. So first of all, and okay, we kind of understand why Billy ends up there because he is found by the dad's friend and the friend is a bar owner and the friends like you wait here, I'll get your dad. Yeah, we don't know why the other kid
Kara Edwards:Why did the other kid just happen to be walking around late at night and stumbled into a bar. He's like 10, we mentioned that
Laura Orr:these children are like 10 years old. And then they pick up pool sticks and start fighting, while the drunk adults just kind of watch. And so and we are to assume this is in the middle of the night because once dad shows up to pick up this kid, nobody gives the other kid a ride home by the way. Yeah, they end up at their house as the sun is coming up. So this bar is open until what I don't know. I mean, like 6am 6am. Right. This is just coming up Kara? Like, how far away is this house from this bar? Right? We have to assume it's like a 30 minute drive maybe an hour. I don't know this bar is open really late is all I'm trying to say. And I think it was very, it was a very
Kara Edwards:interesting choice. Very strange. I didn't even enter the fight even ins with him taking the pool stick to this other child's nether regions to cause intense pain. And that's how the fight ends. And so I had to listen to my seven year old walking around dying left gates. He's like, got him in there. And he's using a bad one.
Laura Orr:Right? Oh, well, it's interesting, because Ollie as a child of the 80s and 90s. I love a good Nard punch, right. But this is a very serious, that's a serious, serious show series. And it felt out of place, the entire scene
Kara Edwards:is so out of place. Not to mention the entire time that we're watching these four episodes, Billy is in what I'm assuming is the suit that he wore to his mother's funeral because it's got it. He's wearing a black suit with a white flower. But then he goes to school. So I'm like, did you bury her at 5am? And then send him off to school for the day? Like, why is this child in his it's so morning wear? Yep. And then going to find Ollie and it's the timecard the timing on it was really hard for me. I had a really hard time figuring out and even at the end I just again me Even Michael like that's the thing. We had to sit down and was like, he had so many questions about the timeline. Like when were they doing this? And how, why? And we both have the same question. Why was all the last for like 25 years? Like why did it take all the cars because what we find out at the very end is that Billy has grown up and Billy is an adult when all he suddenly is able to find the house. And he gives up we haven't even gotten into Zozo yet we're about to do that. But there's a fight another fight between animals there's some murder
Laura Orr:graphic rat toy murder and I traffic to a murder. I did not know that you could. That one could portray toy murder in a way that felt so gut punchy and violent and so violent. It was it was literally like I felt like I was watching a horror movie or like a very suspenseful movie. I won't say heart, very suspenseful movie. And they just replaced it with
Kara Edwards:with toys with really well animated toys.
Laura Orr:That was one of the things I did really really enjoy about this series is the animation is endless and the Music The music is so so good. And then when you put the story line in with it, it just falls apart in some places, I didn't mind the timeline in certain ways. I didn't mind that 1520 year jump, or however long that was okay. But there were other times where the timeline just felt very bizarre to me. And I did not. I did not get it.
Kara Edwards:Yeah, that does. I mean, for me just that 20 plus year jump, where Billy grows up and has his own kid now and, and then they finally find Ali, which was, for me, it was not satisfying because even though there was sweet and I cried, but it wasn't satisfying, because I felt like this little boy who had just lost his mother and has a borderline abusive father needed Ali and it for me, it really bothered me that you've just told us that he had to go his whole life without this thing from his mother. And as an adult than he finally gets to deal with his grief.
Laura Orr:And I think we are to assume that because of that very short conversation with his father in the car, that they the two of them are going to move forward together as a strong family unit. Even though they just lost the literal glue of the family, which is the mother.
Kara Edwards:And even though dad is not okay. No, dad is not okay, throughout this entire thing. And again, the toxic masculinity for me was really hard where he's like, grow up, stop playing with toys, be a man, you know, all this stuff. And, and yeah, you ran away from home, I found you in the bar after you've just nailed a kid in the privates with a pool stick up. And I'm going to start laughing. And this is the moment I'm going to decide I like you and I'm going to be a good dad
Laura Orr:and his comment in that car. He he recalls everything that good has gone through. And all he has to say really is that's one hell of a day. It's one hell
Kara Edwards:of the day He even calls his kid a lunatic. He literally says You're a lunatic. And then he's like, one hell of a day kid. Hey, let's let's let's work this out and be
Laura Orr:patient. Yeah, it's like, well, let's just we got to get through this together. And then we assume I guess that they do because in however many years later, Billy seems very well adjusted. He has a family of his own, but we don't get to see that journey. Right. The resolution from from the childhood scene didn't feel complete or enough for me.
Kara Edwards:I agree. Like it's that. Yeah. And again, I think I found myself emotional. Michael and I were like little octopuses wrapped around each other. At the end. We were holding each other so tight, just trying to get through the end. I remember one of the poignant scenes that Michael walked out on is where all he is talking to the dying mom, which Michael cannot handle. He does not handle the thought of mom dying. And they they play it. I mean, played very well, obviously. But it is very hard and dramatic. But she has a line in there that bothers me where she looks at Ali and and she says young uns need to be told that they're loved and sometimes daddy's ain't so good at that. You know what I'm talking about Ali? I want to tell you my son stood up and left the room. Oh, and I turned it off at that point and went and we talked for a while and I was like, was it the mom dying? Was it what she said? And he was like, I don't want to talk about it and I went and watched a good portion after that by myself and once all these started heading home he heard that from the other room and came in and joined me but I was like, Dang y'all like don't put this on the kids channel and make it appear to be a kids show cuz that's that's too heavy for little one.
Laura Orr:Yeah, that really is and you're so right about that message of the the toxic masculinity I can I can see a character like the dad struggling with showing emotion struggling with raising this boy struggling with raising this boy to the generation that he didn't grow up in and so that conflict I can see all of those things. I don't think it was done in a way that I enjoyed watching oh man when you easy, that's an easy no. And then when you say what she said in the bed of just like the making excuses as opposed to look, I'm also all for accepting a person for who they are. But I do think a part of having a partnership is also encouraging the other person to be their best selves. And so if you're just accepting them as being this non emotional, non supportive human being to a child, you're not really working towards growth. Right?
Kara Edwards:Am I wrong? No. Have your 100% cracked and I think that's what bothered me so much is like you said she was such an enabler for what I felt was. He wasn't out outright abusive. But there were so many things from episode one that I was like, Okay, what's up with the dad? Yeah, like I'm struggling with who this character is. And I did not find it redemptive at the end when he was like, oh, to hell with it. Let's just get through this life. You know, and he actually he had a lovely line in there, you know, tough don't mean you can't cry. And I actually wrote the note. Well, that's about damn time. Well, thanks, dad. So I I felt like that that was good. But then we cut it off so fast and now Billy is grown. Yeah, nice. So in next to this abandoned house that they still left so many of Billy's drawings in because that's what all he finds again. Why did it take only 25 years to find now?
Laura Orr:I've got little legs he has little legs. Kara?
Kara Edwards:Speaking of little legs. Are you ready to dive into Zozo? Cuz I've got issues.
Laura Orr:up sorry, here is rubbing.
Kara Edwards:Oh, this is stressing me out?
Laura Orr:Should we answer the question of who is the audience? Okay,
Kara Edwards:we can do that.
Laura Orr:Do we take a break from our rage?
Kara Edwards:I'd maybe so maybe so this like it'd be the hardest podcast to listen to just like the show was watch.
Laura Orr:You enjoyed this show? I'm so sorry. There's just, there's so much going on on this series that it's hard to not marvel at the intensity of it so
Kara Edwards:intense. So I will tell you when Michael left the room the second time, which was when the mom was dying, he did randomly yell out from his room. I recommend it for 16 plus. So he apparently understands how our podcast works, and that mommy is watching it for work. So I yelled back You darn right kiddo.
Laura Orr:But at the same time, is that like, it's it? I think a 16 year old would have a hard time watching this too. Because I think about what what made me cry. I mean, if I watched Romeo and Juliet today, I would be totally fine. 14 year old Laura could not like was hyperventilating ly sad watching Romeo and Juliet as a as a no question. And as the same thing with Titanic like I think I cried the first 10 viewings of it. Five Year Old Laura probably would not have cried watching Titanic 37 year old Laura sure as heck is not going to cry watching Titanic
Kara Edwards:I still cry watching Titanic or whatever. But I've seen it like 400 It's also a great soundtrack. Lovely to
Laura Orr:locate anyways, but you get teens are very in touch with their emotions, and they feel very strongly. And so I could see a teenager also having a really hard time watching. Yes, because the the the topics are so universally felt like a lot of the things on here a lot of people can relate to and and so I could see this also eliciting emotional responses from teenagers. It's just a heavy show.
Kara Edwards:It's unavoidable, heavy. And that's why I've struggled so much I know we have to answer these questions I used to know I don't know. And I don't understand, because why is it on the kid's channel? It is not a kid show. This is not a kid show. I did not enjoy watching this show.
Laura Orr:Empaths beware that I really and that's
Kara Edwards:where I always say like, I feel people's feelings. And this was really hard for me. And so I don't know who it's for. It wasn't for me, and it wasn't for my kid.
Laura Orr:Are you glad that you watched it? Like if we hadn't been reviewing it? Would you have wanted to watch it?
Kara Edwards:I'm gonna be really frank. If we were not reviewing the show. I'm glad I watched it because I said this to my husband last night. This is why we have this podcast. This it's so important that parents understand this is not a show to set your children in front of and walk away. This is this is a dark, heavy emotional watch. So I'm so grateful that I watched it so we can tell parents that if this podcast did not exist, I would I would want my four hours back.
Laura Orr:Okay, that's fair. What do you think? As I'm as the person that I am today, I don't really think I would have gravitated to this show series. Yeah. Maybe if I were a different person, like, I mean, I consider myself a cinephile. I love movies and shows and I love sitting down and watching things but I don't gravitate towards these very sad shows. is like this is such This Is Us was not a show that I enjoyed watching. I
Kara Edwards:loved this is us. It's literally one of my favorite series. I love darkness. I love
Laura Orr:dark too. Yeah. Like this is add
Kara Edwards:this hit and I think it's because I can watch this as us and it's adults dealing with adult problems. Yeah. This to me was framed as a children's show. And that was bothering me so deeply. And I don't want to watch children suffer the way that I felt Billy was suffering throughout his life and these sad toys and sadness, there was so much sadness, I think
Laura Orr:that it's a matter of taste because this is being critically,
Kara Edwards:it's literally got it's 92% on Rotten Tomatoes, it is 7.8 out of 10 on IMDb. So guys, I know you're listening and you love it.
Laura Orr:I mean, there are people who love it. And I think maybe I think what we're bumping up against is a matter of taste. I think it's just not something that we would watch. And it's not something that we would watch it for let our young kids watch.
Kara Edwards:I want to take this out of Michael's brain. We're gonna be tight. He was asking about it this morning, on the way to school, but I'm one of those people that once we start something unless it's like scary or damaging, I kept wondering where we were going, I kept thinking it was going to be more redemptive. And we were already so deep into it that it was like, well, let's just go ahead and finish and maybe this feels good at the end. And I
Laura Orr:feel like maybe I don't think I would shield my tween or teen from this actually, now that I think about it. If my tween or teen wanted to watch this. I would say okay, it's really heavy. And then let them feel all the feelings because it's, it's the things that happen are reflective and like bits, things that they can reflect on and acknowledge that it was super sad. And so I think that they that teens, tweens and teens could watch this and be less traumatized. I don't I don't know what the word is. But you know what I'm saying right? Yeah, no, I do I do. 2014 Would you let him
Kara Edwards:I would be great if he wanted to watch it. Yeah, I would be fine with him watching this. There's nothing in it that's going to damage him as a human. It's not going to give him I mean maybe hanging out in bars I don't know but fighting fighting pull sticks. But But yeah, I just
Laura Orr:I know what you're saying though like this. Whenever you have stuffed animals in the toy component of it the toy sad. Bothered part of it is going to attract children. It was marketed as it is on the kids channel because it gets rated PG so
Kara Edwards:it's actually listed if you look it up on IMDb it is listed as a comedy.
Laura Orr:That is weird that it is not a comedy for real Yeah,
Kara Edwards:it is listed as a comedy. If you look the show up online it is listed as a comedy What about There's nothing funny there's not one funny scene in this entire series thing a comedy and we're just not and maybe we don't get the dark No There's nothing funny about should watch it again and just know I
Laura Orr:never
Kara Edwards:I still be pleased. And when Zozo goes on his murderous rampages, we need to talk about those there and I need to actually talk about both Zozo and Rosie Okay, let's
Laura Orr:do Okay,
Kara Edwards:so Zozo is the character that is we find Zozo when Ollie ends up in a like random curio shop
Laura Orr:yeah antique type
Kara Edwards:yes yes. Since those those those a character that we think is a good character we quickly find out that those those are full of pure evil we get this giant backstory on Zozo
Laura Orr:holes Episode
Kara Edwards:Episode, there's only about so so and his horribly sad life that he had about lost love. And we find out why Zozo has these intense anger issues. What bothers me so much about this series? Is it Zoes those anger issues are never resolved. He can he continues to be so angry that he wants to murder all other toys and animals and he's trying to murder there's this one brief moment where we think oh, we're about to have a good moment whereas those a realizes like I shouldn't be angry anymore. I need to deal with my grief. No, he goes ahead and murders Ali. Yeah, but that's okay because Rosie another toy comes up behind him and murders him.
Laura Orr:And then she herself dies
Kara Edwards:and then she dies. What is the show and Zozo is anger like that bothered me so much for a children's show. Even for adults like what That's the message here. You're just going to live your life angry and then die.
Laura Orr:Some people do
Kara Edwards:I get that, but I don't want to watch that.
Laura Orr:Not for kids, not for
Kara Edwards:children and also Rosie. Rosie, I actually liked her character, my kid. Well, Michael kept asking, well, I liked her at the end, Michael kept as I will tell you my problem with her Michael kept asking why we didn't get a Rosie back story because he's like, I want to know how she got the patch on her. I want to know, and we never find out why we never find anything out about Rosie other than She is voiced by Mary J. Blige, who is the master of voice she does a great job in this. i My issue with Rosie was that nobody taught Mary Mike technique. Oh, there is a thing with voice acting where how you speak into a mic. It is something you must learn. It is not an innate thing. You have to learn how to act while moving your head around from a microphone like this. Oh, and nobody taught Mary to do this. And so she kept falling off mic, and it was driving me bonkers. And that's why you can't understand half of what she says.
Laura Orr:Oh, that when she speaking?
Kara Edwards:They also didn't have her uh, Nancy like, they just took her lines. It is very natural. Her acting is great. But she just kept like, she'd be saying something and that she just kind of trail off. Yeah. And that's why i i I was struggling, listening. So I was just like, put her back on the mic, man. Somebody show her how to do her headstone. She's like one of the greatest singers of all time.
Laura Orr:She was also in trolls too.
Kara Edwards:She's I mean, like, she knows how to act. She knows how to do these different things. But and then I'm like, That's honestly that's on the engineer. Yeah. Or the director. Yeah. Hey, Mary, get back on that mic. Because we missed part of that line. Oh, I didn't mean that.
Laura Orr:I thought Rosie was kind of a jerk to be honest. And I get that she like comes around. But I don't know. I think I think that Rosie, what I also I think I might have liked Rosie better if all Lee and Zozo had treated her differently. But she was so tiresome in her rage. And then Zozo turns around and says to Olli, if you're a real friend, you'll take the good with the bad. And I'm like, Yeah, to an extent like I get what the what they are trying to say about that because nobody is perfect. And you can't expect them to be perfect. But that same does not apply when somebody is constantly berating and abusing you. Like taking the good with the bad. The bad does not have to be abuse, right? The bad is like they don't turn all the lights off before they leave. The bad is like maybe they make bad choices in their love life. Yes. Like I will support you as a friend right? Being a good friends means that we will go to a movie and have a good time. And then also, I have to hear about your terrible love life.
Kara Edwards:Right? Not that you're toxic and angry and threatening, threatening me with a sword,
Laura Orr:making fun of the way that I look. Yeah, like everything that she did to Ali was was very cruel until the end when we were exposed. So not just it goes back to baby with the the dad, Border Collie, like the redemptive piece can't just appear out of thin air, we have to understand like how they got to that place. Yeah. And it's also still going to be hard for me to send that message to kids that, oh, they're being abusive, but they had a really hard childhood. And as long as you're patient with them, they'll learn how to be a good person. So just endure all of the terrible things that they do to you. Because eventually, they will learn and just give them unconditional love, like all you did. And they'll come around like I feel like that is just setting somebody up for toxic friendships and toxic romantic relationships. And that is what we see in Rosie and Ali's dynamic and I hated it.
Kara Edwards:I you know what, I cannot argue with anything you're saying like and, and I think, you know, maybe I liked her a little bit more because at least she had an arc in there. Whereas I felt like Zozo did not, Zo is like I am I am murderous and I am angry and I'm just going to randomly pick a toy on the street and rip the stuffing out of it. And he never there was nothing more but just anger with him and I even wrote down like is this even an accurate representation of grief and I think some people can read depression and totally
Laura Orr:some people can be consumed by that and grief can be life changing. It can be It can be all of those things that can destroy a person for sure if you know, that's unresolved grief, and you know, people go to therapy for that all the time, or they don't and they become murderous clowns,
Kara Edwards:I guess.
Laura Orr:And I think that that those people do exist in this world that they don't, you know, recover from the the loss, the trauma, the trauma of the loss, and it changes who they are as a person, and it changes how they treat other people, for sure. Is that what we're trying to teach kids in the show?
Kara Edwards:I mean, it's not what I want my son watching, and it's not what I want to watch. I would honestly
Laura Orr:rather just have a purely evil villain. I totally agree. Totally agree like me, give me period, because
Kara Edwards:we are meant to feel very sorry for Zozo because there's that long scene where he is a toy at a festival fair where he gets beat up with this baseball over and over again. So we are meant to feel compassion for him. And yet it i that his character bothered me so much.
Laura Orr:Yeah, I me too, and I get what they're trying to do. Yeah. Because that is more representative of how people become sociopathic, psychopathic, yeah. Is they are constantly knocked down. They grow up a lot of most not all but a lot of of serial killers. They had terrible childhoods and so I get that they're trying to Yeah, show that
Kara Edwards:I get it too. And I love a good How did this serial killer become a serial killer? Show? I want to watch that on the adults channel. And I want it to be called How did the serial killer become a serial killer? There? I don't want it to be on the kids channel and be called Lost Dolly?
Laura Orr:Poor Zozo. Lost dolly torsos. Oh, yes. That I my head is I'm totally with you. I think I know. I'm I agree. So what did we like about it? Kara?
Kara Edwards:The CGI is great. You already mentioned it. The animations grade? The there's no question. It's it's it is a drama from beginning to end. It is not boring.
Laura Orr:Yeah. I don't. I think that they. They're see. So there are some other messages that I think they're trying to put in there. And this is, I don't know, mate. I don't know, maybe this is just me trying to see a silver lining.
Kara Edwards:I like as a therapist, I was counting on you to turn my brain around and like, show me why
Laura Orr:this is so great. It's, it's not so great. Okay, but there are there are some takeaways that I okay that were thought provoking. And whether it was their intention or not, I have no idea. But I did it did. I did start thinking a lot about Ali's relationship with Billy. And the way Billy is treated because of the way that he interacts with Olli reminded me a lot of kids who have imaginary friends. Yes. And so I did. I was interested in watching that they don't really have any commentary about it on the show itself. So you're not going to walk away with any insight on what a kid is, like, who has imaginary friends. Okay. But it was interesting to watch, because I think some parents can relate to seeing their child behaving in that way. And having concern for their child. Yeah, especially when you see the child at school, who is acting in this way. And he's very much separate from his friends in that way. Some are supportive, and some are bullying him because of it. Right? And so you can see how he is different in that way. And so how one of the parents in the show is concerned about that. Right? And so, um, I liked seeing that. But I also felt like, I wanted to go up to the dad and tell him like, Hey, did you know that kids with imaginary friends actually grow up to be more creative adults, okay. And kids with imaginary friends have better social skills and they have stronger vocabulary skills as children because they are allowed to practice social situations without repercussions. That makes sense. Oh, they are also out allowed to act out stress, feelings of powerlessness, sadness, despair. I wonder if we know anyone like that maybe Billy Ray. Like the fact that this child is going through a really traumatic area, a traumatic experience and his anticipatory grief is being played out through the stall though he did have this relationship with the doll prior to finding out about his mom's diagnosis. It did not surprise me at all that he decided to hold on to this part of his childhood, even like his development, and even do more of it as a way of coping with this very terrible reality. And it's escapism, if you are having very stressful, you know, circumstances in your life, what better way to cope with that than to create a beautiful world where you have this best friend who loves you unconditionally. And I thought it was a very sweet part of the story that I think they could have had some sort on
Kara Edwards:something more with, like, I feel like what you just said, was so much more uplifting. And I wish that had been in there like, Oh, here's why all you mattered so much. And here's and they do explain why this was such a special doll. But it could have been as it just as been more and
Laura Orr:more the mom saying something like, when the dad is, is giving Billy a hard time the mom could have they could have added two lines of Hey, is that what you really need to worry about right now? Or maybe this is what he needs right now.
Kara Edwards:Ya know, like there had been well, they need to do in there. And I think they don't
Laura Orr:dad, you know, the dad still says like you went out looking for your last doll. And I didn't know where you were like that could have been that moment in the car could have been like I understand how important he is to you. He knew that the mom made that doll for him. Right? Like he could have said something to acknowledge that this is a big part of this kid's healing process is the stall that he has just now lost. And I just no acknowledgement of that
Kara Edwards:whatsoever. And that's why the 20 year gap bothered me so much, because as an adult, he's able to see Ollie come to life. And that's when it's like, oh, now my grief gets to finally come full circle now that I'm 35 and have a kid Yeah, like that really bothered me that like little Billy was supposed to live his whole life without that. Because it you're right, it is okay for this child to have this toy. That is a comfort during that, that his mother made him. Yeah. And even if none of
Laura Orr:this was more the case, having an imaginary friend, you don't have to if your child has an imaginary friend, you don't have to worry that like, oh my gosh, is this is this person playing out something terrible that's happening to them that I don't know about? Right? That's not what I'm saying either. Because kids have imaginary friends just because they're creative. And they have these. They are very social. And they are hanging out by themselves. That's why oldest children and only children are more likely to have imaginary friends. Oh,
Kara Edwards:yeah. I was just saying my big sister had one.
Laura Orr:There you go. Yeah. And this kids and only child. And so I also just want to clarify, I'm not saying that, you know, imaginary friends are for traumatized kids, or grieving children. But
Kara Edwards:sometimes they're just really creative. get very creative
Laura Orr:cast kids who are wanting to play out a variety of situations and they have their imagination to do so
Kara Edwards:I feel like you're saying that we we don't need to panic as parents of our children have an imaginary friend and push toxic masculinity on boys who might have an imaginary friend. Okay, shame. Yeah, it stops shaming your child.
Laura Orr:It just reminds me of I think there's a lot of pressure on parents right now also, to speed their children through development. And I felt like that was being shown in this to through the dad is that we got to get this kid growing up quickly, because there's a lot going on at home as well. Like, not only does he need to eat, yes, but there's very adult things happening at home. So this kid needs to grow up really quickly. And I think that that is very reflective in parents right now is that we feel that pressure that our kids have to, you know, age too quickly, age quickly or accomplish milestones very quickly the STAR test I mean, our kids are driving me definitely being held. Yeah, very high standards of development. And that's not realistic. I don't know if I've said this before, but I love comparing kids to being popcorn children. I don't know if I've said this yet. Where, where if your kid's brain is like uncooked popcorn, and every accomplishment they have is like when one of those things pop and become popcorn. They don't happen all at once. They're going to happen one at a time and you just have to let it simmer. There's nothing you can do. You just have to let it simmer. You cannot rush that process.
Kara Edwards:And it kids develop differently. I remember Michael was a really late Walker and everybody else around us was so panicked. Like he's 15 months he's not walking yet. And he was fine. And I never put the pressure and you know what when he decided he was ready to walk Guess what? My kid walks just
Laura Orr:fine. Run he run he jumped me I've seen him do once I climber
Kara Edwards:like he's perfectly fine. And that's, yeah, you're right. This kind of thought of like you need to grow up and take care of your mother. Now it was best really bothersome there's a lot in here
Laura Orr:there are there was I did like the theme they did I thought they did a pretty good job of the chose the theme of chosen family. I thought that they represented this adoptive family this
Kara Edwards:I wish they had done a little more. I wish. Yeah, I wish they had because you're right. They did it so well. And they also showed society saying like, Oh, you're he doesn't look like you. I was. And then it's like, okay, there you go. We need to be more conscious and thoughtful. And they did that. So well. I really wish there was more.
Laura Orr:Yeah, I did. Yeah, I do wish there was more to because I feel like the the moments that we got some reprieve from the heaviness was when we watched the dynamic between mom and belly. Yeah, that was the time where we could see like beautiful love, unconditional love
Kara Edwards:how this family wanted Billy when they adopted him and he was so loved. And that was your right. That's the one times it was so beautiful. And there was special stuff in there. And at the end, I wasn't sure. At the end if they were trying to insinuate the Billy had then grown up and adopted a daughter. If she was mixed race, I didn't I didn't really know. But I had that thought of like, okay, are they trying to make sure we understand that the adoption, right, because we don't find a mother with. We don't see a mother. We just see. So I don't know what they were trying to say there. But I saw that and I was like, well, that's lovely. And I wish there was more of that in there. Just more acknowledgement. Yeah, that was lightly less toy murder. A little more adoption love and what
Laura Orr:is it about these stories where the toys feel super traumatized when kids get rid of them?
Kara Edwards:I am like, by the way, I actually talked to Michael about that because we just did a huge donation. And I was like your toys are not sitting somewhere grieving your loss.
Laura Orr:It's like this Hey, seriously shows like this. Encourage hoarding. isn't always gonna want to give their give up their toys. But is this I mean, like, speaking of horror, could you imagine if your toy showed up? 25 years later on your doorstep? Like that's pretty freaky.
Kara Edwards:That would not I would not be okay with the
Laura Orr:right music. This could have turned into an entirely different
Kara Edwards:time of day. We aren't close to Halloween. So this could have been
Laura Orr:a very different series. This was a horror show. And we didn't maybe we just
Kara Edwards:well, now I'm a yes.
Laura Orr:I was successfully terrified. Kara. Did you keep a toy from your childhood? Do you have
Kara Edwards:I you know, I actually said there was a toy that um, has been kept. It was not from my childhood. This was a toy that I had given my niece when she was a baby. And it's a stuffed bunny. When she got a little bit older. She actually gave it back to me and this very sweet. She had kind of outgrown it and she gave it in it was her choice like no, I want to give her this bunny because she loved this bunny so much. She gave it to me. And I want her to have it back. And I gave it to Michael when he was a baby and it sits on his bed. So there is a bunny that has gone through that is every everyone in the house knows this is a very special bunny. What about you?
Laura Orr:Yeah, I have one that I have not given to my children. It's still mine. I don't trust those kids. break anything, break everything. And so I don't want to put my special stuffed animal through it. His name is cry dog. Okay. I named him when I was two. He's a big stuffed dog. That was the size of me when my parents gave it to me. Oh, so I would when I would get mad, I would cry into him. And so when I was sad, I would ask, you know, I would say I need my cry dog and I would go run and cry into my cry. That's
Kara Edwards:sweet and awful and sad and wonderful, has beautiful floppy
Laura Orr:ears kinda like all he does. And so I would wipe my eyes with his ears and I still have him and I just haven't given him to the girls because again, like, I don't know what
Kara Edwards:it is. They would do but you might need a mom.
Laura Orr:I may or may not still whip him out in time say otherwise he is well out of reach because I just don't want crowns. I don't want markers on him. He's white. I kept him white. I don't know how I was so successfully tidy and my children are so chaotic. In their like, they they just there's markers and stickers on everything. Because we grew
Kara Edwards:up in the 80s where we would have been one toy like what toy you mess it up. You will never get another one.
Laura Orr:You have to raise money young five year old by mowing the lawn to get that out together corridor that goes in your piggy bank so that in a year you can have another toy. Otherwise there's Pee Wee's. Playhouse in our backyard with a lot of ants in it, those are your choices.
Kara Edwards:Get on your bike and we'll see you before the sun sets.
Laura Orr:Here's a here's a coke. Here's Dr. Pepper. And you don't enter for the road. I just
Kara Edwards:realized right now that with Ollie showing up 25 years later that this whole show takes place in the 80s and 90s That's why his dad's such a jerk. I just put that together. i Yeah, right cuz it cuz if modern day and then he was younger, he would have been a jerk. 80s or 90s. That's when it was still okay to send your kid to the bar. Oh, right. tone. I just put this all together. Oh, yeah,
Laura Orr:kids were having fights in bars in the 80s all the time. For sure this all
Kara Edwards:so there was no supervision, which explains why the kid was walking around at midnight, and that the dad
Laura Orr:was like one hell of a day. Like it's just a Tuesday now go to school. That's Yes.
Kara Edwards:Sorry about your mom, get your butt to school. That's exactly what's going on.
Laura Orr:Okay. So if they would have played up on the fact that this is the 80s Maybe it would have made more sense. And
Kara Edwards:then it would have been a stranger things. But with
Laura Orr:really crazy dollar, it's really creepy. No, yeah, I I think there is. It could have been something. Instead it was something else. One more thing. Okay. What's the medical system that terrible back then too, because we didn't even cover the fact that mom has cancer. And sorry, spoiler we haven't we haven't said exactly what her illness was. But she has cancer and she cannot treat it because they don't have insurance and so they cannot afford treatment. Okay, which is messed up.
Kara Edwards:Fun fact. How is that different from today?
Laura Orr:That's, that's what I'm saying. I was that was insurance so bad back then. Because I feel like we had really good insurance. I thought the medical system was
Kara Edwards:like, you could see a dog. You're right. I'm trying to remember when I was a kid, like, you could see a doctor.
Laura Orr:You could research
Kara Edwards:resources, because like, you're right, because today, that's 100%
Laura Orr:Makes sense. And when I watched it, I was like, that's real. Yeah. You were saying at first and I was like, No, that's exactly what it did. The US has a terrible medical system where a person's life saving care, because they can't because they can't afford it. Yeah. So now,
Kara Edwards:what was it like 25
Laura Orr:years ago? I wonder maybe it was terrible like that back then too. And obviously, we just didn't care because we were kids. And we weren't dealing with this kind of stuff. But anyways, that was also something that is we have run out of time.
Kara Edwards:There's so much Verizon Siri,
Laura Orr:there's so much more to unpack it, but
Kara Edwards:now. Okay, now that we have processed all that could possibly be processed in this process. Laura, should they watch it?
Laura Orr:I think you know, I I don't want to say no, because I don't want to hurt people's feelings.
Kara Edwards:But if our job so I know everybody loves it so much, but who is loving it? And I'm gonna say
Laura Orr:probably not kids, and you're probably not parents of young children. So should
Kara Edwards:they watch it being children? Should children watch this?
Laura Orr:tweens and teens? Sure. I don't think you need to. I don't think this is something that anybody needs to be watching. So I guess my answer is no.
Kara Edwards:And I'm actually gonna go no, I have to go. No. Wow. Yeah, but I do have to tell you that at the very end, right after the climax of last dolly where everybody's dead. Michael looks right over at me and says Mom, over 2000 people in the world fart at the exact same time. That that is what I'm going to take away from my time with Los Dali. Did they say that in the No. But my son out of the blue was sitting there thinking how many people were farting? At the end of last Dolly? Because I'm guessing you farted and just had to thought that hey 2000 other people in the world right then.
Laura Orr:So that moment all that to say kids will probably be fine. I they did want to be okay. You want them to watch it? I would suggest watching it first. I think there's much there are shows out there with much more gentle approaches. Yeah, brief. If you want a show where, where there's a kid who's facing terminal illness of a parent, you got camp Cretaceous See where it's it's much more gently woven into the storyline as flashbacks and so will this is flashbacks to but it's just it's it's a lot it is also dinosaurs
Kara Edwards:okay I like it yeah
Laura Orr:palatable yes if you want to watch grief you know I we did the land Land Before
Kara Edwards:Time and I love I love using that if you want to talk about bullying you can also talk about bullying from The Land Before Time if you want to talk about having faith and continuing forward on a journey to get to your destination go watch The Land Before Time. Yeah, I mean
Laura Orr:if you want to watch toys being traumatized through separation we all know a much gentler version of that there are four or five of the
Kara Edwards:toy stories Toy Story and you get Tom Hanks yes,
Laura Orr:there's just other things that you could be watching with your kids. Yeah. And I don't even know if you want to watch this by yourself but if you're morbidly curious it's only
Kara Edwards:it was taking like three and a half hours of your life so
Laura Orr:it could just be a night of watching and you can decide for yourself and we'd love to hear from you please don't hate us I'm I have not been this nervous to say no to something in a long time. I know I was pretty critical of Encanto and I've changed my tune quite a bit I do like it a lot more than when I first saw it but yeah, I think that that is the last time that I felt this nervous to
Kara Edwards:be critical to say notice thing
Laura Orr:yeah a show because of how many people love it
Kara Edwards:and but I standby this one I did not feel good and neither did my son. Well we'd love to hear what you guys think yeah I want to hear everything you guys have done that you can reach us in so many places on Instagram at should they watch it we're on Twitter it should they watch should they watch because they wouldn't let me put an IT on it. You can reach out to us at podcast at should they watch it on our website it should they watch it.com
Laura Orr:If you love us give us five stars elite don't if you're later if you're
Kara Edwards:mad at us go we understand we'll still love you if you need to, like write us a really bad review for this one. We will still love you
Laura Orr:or just send me an email. Yeah, maybe
Kara Edwards:hate mail. We can totally take your hate mail.
Laura Orr:Those reviews are super important. Not give us
Kara Edwards:Yeah, that'd be great. Okay, so thanks for tuning in. This was a joy we'll see you next week. We'll have so much more fun by subscribing follow us on Instagram.